Episode 4: Iman Qureshi

Transcript

Shiroma 0:06

Welcome to The Next Act: British South Asian Playwrights, a new series focusing on the voices shaping the future of British South Asian theatre. Each episode centers on a conversation with a single playwright examining their creative processes and the political, personal and artistic forces that drive and inform their work, bringing about lively, thought provoking dialogs that explore the zeitgeist in this theatre landscape. I'm Shiroma Silva. I'm a film director, a radio producer and broadcast journalist. With me is Rukhsana Ahmad.

Rukhsana 0:38

I'm a writer, playwright and translator. I'm also the founder of Kali Theater Company and sada

Shiroma 0:45

and Jaswinder Blackwell Pal.

Jaswinder 0:47

I'm a lecturer in theatre and performance studies at Queen Mary University of London.

Shiroma 0:54

Today, we're joined by Iman Qureshi, an award winning writer of stage, screen and radio. Her breakout play, The Funeral Director, of 2018, explores the life of a British Pakistani woman Aisha, who runs a Muslim funeral home with her husband, Zeyd. Their already tempestuous life takes a turn when they refuse to run the funeral of a young man's Muslim partner. They subsequently find themselves sued for sexual discrimination, and Aisha is forced to confront secrets that she's hidden even from herself. This play won the Papatanga New Writing Prize in 2018 and had its debut at the Southwark Playhouse, followed by a tour with the English Touring Theatre. Her next play, The Ministry of Lesbian Affairs, was put on at the Soho theatre in 2022 and will return to the Kiln in June 2025. It centers around a lesbian choir's mission to both unite and uplift their shrinking community.

We'd love to know, first of all, tell us about your your voice as a writer. Tell us about that. How did you find it? How did that come about?

Iman 2:11

Well, I think I've always wanted to write. I grew up across different countries, so I'm Pakistani by, I guess blood. But I grew up in the Middle East and then was sent to boarding school in the UK when I was 16. So I think I've always felt like I didn't belong. I didn't belong in Pakistan, I didn't belong in the Middle East. I've never belonged in the UK, really. And so when you are a little out of place everywhere, I think you have multiple voices, and I think that's actually maybe very useful tool as a playwright, because you're very attuned into how different people speak, because you're so conscious about how you fit in or don't fit in in relation to them, and when you're mimicking or not mimicking. And you know, this lovely accent that I have isn't actually my accent that I grew up with. It's it's one that's been crafted and honed and perfected in order to fit in. So I think that's how I found multiple voices. And then I found theatre through, yeah, Kali Theatre, which I'm sure we'll get on to.

Shiroma 3:17

Okay, let's look at some of your specific works then. The Ministry of Lesbian Affairs, for instance. That's got some real life resonance, hasn't it?

Iman 3:28

It's a play I'm very fond of, and it's one that's was on a couple of years ago at Soho theatre, and it's coming back this year in a remount at the Kiln Theatre, which is a slightly bigger space. And yeah, I'm really excited about it. I think what feels so special about that play is that it's really looking at this question of community, and what kind of community do we want? And I think in a world where we are very much, I guess, in a polarized time, in a culture war, in a, you know, constant Twitter feuds or spats or X as it is now, I think this is really looking at what what it means to form a community when not everyone agrees, when not everyone is on the same page about everything, and how can we still live together and be with each other and celebrate each other and support each other? And I think that's an issue that's very dear to me at the moment.

Jaswinder 4:23

With The Ministry of Lesbian Affairs, you begin with this epigraph from Sara Ahmed, which I think is really interesting. So I was wondering if you could speak a little bit about her influence on that work, but also other scholars or writers who've kind of influenced your plays as well.

Iman 4:38

Sure. I mean, it's been, been a while since I've read Sara's academic work, about 15 years since I was last at university, but that epigraph is from an essay she wrote around 2018 ish, when really what emerged from this sort of LGBT umbrella community was a group, group of lesbian activists who were very vocal about excluding trans women from the community and and a lot of that dialog was around, trans women are really men in disguise, and, you know, they're invading our space, and we don't want penises in the bedroom. And it was very,in my opinion, hysterical, very fearful, not really grounded in a kind of, you know, I don't think many of those lesbians were have actually been assaulted by a trans woman in a bathroom. I, you know, I can't think of anyone I know who's been assaulted by trans women in the bathroom. So and Sara Ahmed wrote this essay that I was so moved by that was really a sort of call to solidarity. And yes, there are differences between people in this community, but we need each other, and we need each other, because the forces against all of us are so so strong and I mean all you just have to look across the pond at Trump to see how, you know how anti trans he is. But ultimately, I respect someone's dignity, and I respect someone's humanity and their desire to live life in a way that gives them the best chance at joy and love and fulfillment. And I think that's, that's that should be a non negotiable, and I think that's what Sara was really trying to capture in that essay. So I was, I was really moved by that, and I really wanted to create a piece of theatre that that communicates that through emotion and through empathy and through stories.

Jaswinder 6:49

Great. Thank you. And are there other kind of things that you would say have been kind of major influences on your development as a writer? Are there other playwrights, for example, that you really looked to when you first started this creative journey?

Iman 7:02

Well, for ministry, specifically, I've been, I suppose, very inspired by the sort of epic gay plays. So whether it's Angels in America or The Inheritance or The Normal Heart, or there's a play called The Boys in the Band, and these stories about a group of people and how they rub up against each other in their lives and and how that can somehow be a stand in, be, be a kind of synecdoche of something, for a wider national conversation, or a wider public conversation, so that you know, those plays were the inspiration for Ministry. But Ministry is also quite different. It's a comedy. There's a lot of laughter, there's a lot of music. It's, yeah, it also draws from things like Calendar Girls or Stepping Out, or the other one, The Full Monty. You know, it's this group of ragtag people that aren't necessarily shiny and special, but an audience fall in love with them and want to be part of them. And actually, the first half of the play is really all about seduction. It's about winning the audience over through their humor, through their music, through their lives and their loves and their flirtations. And that's actually a real joy to watch when you're in the audience.

Shiroma 8:23

Tell us about how your background informs the themes of your work. You've identified as a Muslim, for example, and The Funeral Director, I was very, very taken by the humanity in that but that's also tackling loyalties, and how different loyalties can sit side by side, national loyalties, loyalties which are more to do with culture and religion.

Iman 8:52

I think that's one of those plays where that came from being a little out of place everywhere. Where, with that play, I was really speaking to two audiences. One audience was a slightly Islamophobic sort of white liberal, often gay audience that that, you know, treat Muslims as these, this homophobic monolith who are really backwards and have no space to change and don't sit as part of a modern Britain. And then the other audience was, you know, people from my culture, my background, weren't ones that I you know, people that I grew up with, who I love and who I know are very capable of love and empathy and compassion and are ready to change. They just need a gentle hand to kind of go this thing that you think, homosexuality, that is so scary, it actually isn't. And I wanted to speak to them especially, and just win them over, I suppose. And I think at the at the time, there was that in Northern Ireland there, I don't know if you remember, but there was this story in the news of a bakery that had turned away a gay man and declined his order to make an equal gay, equal marriage cake. And this went all the way up to the Supreme Court. And I actually think the Supreme Court eventually found in favor of the bakery, yes, and I think the the legal thing that it turned on was that the man himself wasn't discriminated against. It was the cake that they declined. So if a heterosexual person came in to order the same cake, they would still decline the order. So it therefore cannot be discrimination. You know, the Court of Appeal found in the gay man's favor. So, you know, it's a very, very delicate legal point. So anyway, this went all the way up.

And I think I was really interested in this as well, because it was so clearly a Christian bakery. And I think we, you know, this nation forgets that that Islam and Christianity are actually very close in their texts, in their beliefs and their practices. And I was sort of interested to use that, transplant it into into a Muslim community. And yeah, and I think, I hope that goes some way to showing that, you know, homophobia isn't uniquely a Muslim thing, but actually, for, you know, people from all walks of life, from all religions, can be homophobic, yeah. And really, that is a play about about love, about acceptance, about compassion and and I really, you know, when my parents came to see it, they flew over from Pakistan and came to see it. And I just really saw that in there, and it was staged and in traverse, so you the audience were on opposite sides of the stage, and so you could see the audience sitting across from you, and I was sitting across from my parents and and I, you know, the tears streaming down their face, they were really moved. And I, yeah, I think something really shifted for them watching that.

Rukhsana 12:03

It's really lovely to hear all this from you directly about your parents as well, because I think one of the amazing things about the piece is the frankness with which you treat the whole subject of sexuality. And I wondered actually if there's any kind of any metaphor or symbol that you choose, that that you've chosen in that play?,

Iman 12:26

Absolutely, I think so, what really unlocked that play for me...because I had this idea of this woman who is married to this man because she's, you know, thought that was the right thing to do all along, and so she went with it. But then, but is sort of, you know, a closeted lesbian, and discovers that through the course of the play. But what really unlocked that play was finding this, this location of the funeral home, and the metaphor of life and, and what is a life with - it sounds cheesy - but what is a life without love? What? What is the point of it? You might as well, and be dead and someone who is that close to death all the time, I think I was really interested in this idea of her really having to think about what she's sacrificing in order to, you know, fulfill whatever imagined expectations her mother might have had of her, her mother's dead in the play. And you know, there's a song that the play opens with, which is Mehdi Hassan, and it's Duniya Kisi Ke Pyar Mein, which means, the world is extra special, when you're in love, like, essentially, I think, is what the lyrics mean. I can't quite remember them. And so I really wanted to use that metaphor and burial and internment and hiding something and concealing something, and the cost of that, I think, was all bound up in that play.

Rukhsana 13:49

So it is a play that exposed something to you about yourself as well. Do you think?

Iman 13:56

I think I probably wrote it after I already discovered the things about myself that I needed to discover.

Rukhsana 14:03

But the music that you select in the play is also very poignant. I think the first song, as well as the last song, which is a Punjabi folk song that you mentioned, which I think is a very moving song about weddings, when girls are sent off. It's about separation from the mother.

Iman 14:18

That's exactly why I chose it. It's a it's a song I love, and that was the character's moment of of leaving, of departing. But she's still taking this - so there's a sadness of of leaving what she knows, but also she's taking this song with her. She's taking her culture with her, and and I guess really knitting. And I love music. And, you know, I use music in my work a lot, and knitting those songs into into the fabric of the play felt really important to me as, as to say that, you know, that culture and homosexuality aren't necessarily exclusive. I think they can bery much go together, and she carries that with her/

Shiroma 15:03

And the theme of sexuality is something that plays into several of your works, obviously. So with Ministry, tell us a little bit you know about weaving that in, and because it's it's still some somewhat a taboo subject in certain arenas of life.

Iman 15:24

The world has changed so quickly and, when I went to school I was bullied mercilessly as a lesbian, before I even knew what a lesbian was, and and there was no education around it or attempt to stop that bullying, or, you know, to say this isn't an awful thing. It was very much, you know, the status quo was that this is shameful and bad and, you know.

Shiroma 15:56

But that status quo is coming back now, isn't it?

Iman 15:58

I think, I think yes, in certain sections I think. I think it's coming back in a very different way. I think there is a real, I think now the real target of that ire is trans people and non binary people and really gender. And I think, you know, homosexuality, homophobia is really about gender. It's about, you know, a man not doing what a man should do, which is be attracted to women and sleep with women and marry women, and a woman not doing what a woman should do, which is look pretty and wear earrings and lipstick and be with men. But I think what people really can't now digest is, is transness and non binary people, and this sort of the idea of, I think you often hear sort of right wing people going, oh, this idea that there are 99 genders, and it's saying there are 99 genders. But alot of Sara Ahmed's work is about, is about deconstructing gender and and saying that you know, these are social constructs that we have created, they're fictions, they're stories essentially, that we've created to organize our lives. And to what extent can we break them down? To what extent are they not working for some people to what you know, and I think that's a really valid thing, but I think that is what's really upsetting.

Shiroma 17:30

And some of that pushback, of course, comes from communities who were fighting for their own rights, 30, 40, 50 years ago.

Iman 17:38

Yes, and actually, I find it really interesting that a lot of the language they use is very similar to the language of homophobia. So I remember a lot of the sort of homophobic stuff around women used to be, oh, we have the lesbian PE teacher preying on, you know, young girls, or the lesbian prison guard preying on sort of female prisoners and and now it's, you know, the trans, the trans PE teacher preying on young children. And think of the children and a lot of pearl clutching. And so I think that language is similar, yeah.

Jaswinder 18:13

I think, you know, that's makes Ministry a kind of really timely play, and you stage that so well in that play, and kind of thinking about how transphobia is also a rollback of all kind of gender based rights, and is also a kind of, you know, attack on people's sexual freedom as well. But I think there's something really interesting about how your plays kind of weave, like race and sexuality together as well, in a way that's very thoughtful, but also, I think, quite rare in terms of, like, seeing plays that stage, Muslim queerness full stop. We rarely, get to see those stories on stage. But also how you think about how race and sexuality are kind of connected in contemporary life. So I was wondering if you could say a little bit about more about that, about how you kind of think about those connections between how race and sexuality are constructed and interplaying.

Iman 19:03

Yeah, absolutely. So I think in Funeral Director, we've talked a lot about that, so I'll just touch on race and Ministry a little bit. So that you know, one of the characters is a woman called Lori, who is black and of a Christian background and really struggles to come out to her mother, and I think there is a lot of shame in that, and there's a lot of not wanting to lose her mother. And she has a white partner who's comfortably out and has liberal parents and who just doesn't seem to understand the difficulties for Lori. But also, Lori is a little bit of a coward, and has to have find that courage eventually. And so it's about that push and pull and about how those relationships work and the expectations they have of each other. And then the other character to mention in Ministries is a woman called Dina, who is from Qatar. So she's Arab, she's married to a man, and she finds her way to the choir and is very excited to explore this new lesbian identity that she's found. But she is in the UK on a marriage visa, and so her immigration status is tenuous. And if she were to leave her husband, which she would very much like to do because he's an awful man, she would also have to leave the UK. And the other choir members don't really understand the sort of seriousness of this. And I think, you know, and as an immigrant myself, who for a long time jumped from visa to visa to visa, there was always this sense of tenuousness and that it might end, and a real, real desperate fear, because ultimately, the life that I can live here. You know, given who I am is, is much easier than the life that I would have to live in Pakistan. And I think immigration is one of those conversations where it's like, oh, they're flooding in. They're flocking in. It's so easy. You just come here and you get a council house and you get and you get all this money, and it's so easy, and it's a lie. It's a lie. It's actually incredibly difficult to migrate to this country and and I guess that's something that I wanted to highlight, that this woman is trapped in this marriage because she she because of her immigration status. And I think that's a very true thing. And I, yeah, I just wanted to kind of make a point that there is a much wider world within the gay rights movement that that has a lot further to go than this country. And I think we can get very sort of navel gazey and solipsistic about the rights within this country, within, you know, within the West.

Shiroma 19:11

Is it fair to say that, in a way, what you're doing is you're presenting context? Because both Lori and Dina, they're on a journey. They can't necessarily both jump like some of the others in the choir could, and they've found a happy place for themselves at the moment.

Iman 21:59

Yeah, exactly that. And you know, there's a kinship between them. There's a friendship there that other people don't quite get. And actually, Lori's girlfriend gets quite jealous, but that is what brings them together. They really get each other in that way.

Shiroma 22:12

Tell us a little bit more now about the process of writing.

Iman 22:19

Well, a lot of writing is actually not writing. It's sitting on my sofa and staring into space or walking the dog and listening to podcasts or going down internet rabbit holes of reading essays, watching YouTube videos, and yeah, I think most of writing is not writing, especially when it comes to a play. I think. I'm sure a novel is, if you spoke to a novelist, it would be different. And actually, I tend to spend almost months doing that sort of research and thinking, and then when I actually sit down to write the play, it happens quite quickly. It's, you know, a matter of couple of months, sometimes even a couple of weeks, which is fun, which is fun, but yeah, and you're sort of half living in a different in the world of the play.

Rukhsana 23:08

How do you find dealing with actors and directors and all the collaboration that is involved in theatre?

Iman 23:14

I think that's one of the things I love about theatre, is that these actors come along and take my very average sentences and make them very funny in a way that I wouldn't have thought or very moving in a way that I wouldn't have imagined. And the person who directed, Funeral Director andMministry is also my partner, so which is how we met. So yeah, she's just very I think directors and designers bring so much magic to theater in a way that.

Rukhsana 23:41

And dramaturgy. Do you believe in that?

Iman 23:43

I do, yeah. I find it really helpful. I find it very - It depends who is your dramaturg. I think there are different people have different ways, but I think it's always useful to get an outside eye on something. And even if you know a dramaturg says, Oh, this thing isn't quite working, it's useful for me. Even if I'm like, I know that bit is working, it's useful for me because I can go, okay, but why is that person saying that that bit isn't working? Maybe the problem is four steps back, and actually, I haven't set it up strongly enough in order to make that bit land. So I find dramaturgy really a useful part of the process.

Jaswinder 24:26

One thing I did really want to ask you about is like your use of space in your plays, because I think it's actually a really interesting element of both the scripts. So you use these quite unusual but very specific locations. So The Funeral Director, of course, is set in funeral parlor, and I think that's such a fascinating sight to stage a play. And then with Ministry, we have this choir in this kind of old community hall, which is also a space that lends itself to the play and to the characters in particular ways. So I was wondering if you'd say a bit about that, why you chose those spaces and what they add to your thinking.

Iman 25:01

Anywhere, anywhere but a family living room, for me anyway, although I've seen some very good plays that are set in in family homes. Often those spaces unlock the play, and they become these silent characters as well that are very much part of the story and carry the metaphor. So the choir carry, carries the metaphor of this and in this rundown community center that it is, that's crumbling, that's struggling to sort of get by, but they love it. And I'm interested in this idea of like building up an image or building up a metaphor using all aspects of theatre. So at the minute, I'm writing a play about looking at not quite Israel and Palestine, but looking at anti semitism and how accusations of anti semitism are often used in bad faith to sort of silence pro Palestinian activism and trying, as you know, as someone who's not Jewish, to unravel what anti semitism actually is. Because I think it's become so murky. And I think, you know, even, even Jews can't agree on what anti semitism is. If you ask one Jewish person, they'll say this. If you ask another Jewish person, they'll say that. And so how am I as an outsider to understand whether something I'm saying is anti semitic or not? So I'm really interested in that, and the location I'm doing that through is a charity. It's a very sort of charity, a bit like comic relief, a great British charity institution, and that's called Just Do Good, or something like that. I haven't quite worked it out yet, but this idea of like charity and what's good, and a kind of very clear moral or ethical framework actually becomes very complicated through the play. And I think this charity is, is a useful metaphor of, like, we're doing something good for the world, but what is that, and who's being silenced and whose voices are being heard? And I find locations really helpful, vehicles really helpful for telling the story you're trying to tell.

Jaswinder 26:57

All of those spaces also, they have like a front stage and a backstage element, you know, like the choir in rehearsal versus a choir in performance. Even in the funeral parlor, you know, you have the kind of behind, you know, behind the scenes, behind the curtain, versus the kind of public interface. And same with the charity as a setting. And I wonder if that actually also kind of interplays with those themes, you know, particularly themes around identity, sexuality, gender, that kind of front and backstage element, actually, those, those combined in quite interesting ways. Quite theatrical.

Iman 27:30

I've never thought of that before. Yeah. And that sort of public, public world and private world. And, yeah, that difference between those two, yeah, didn't really think of that.

Jaswinder 27:37

It's really interesting the way you're kind of narrating that it sounds like that premise of like complicating a moral framework is actually the starting point for each of those plays. There's a that's a kind of genesis for each of the projects. Is started from that idea.

Iman 27:52

And ultimately, I think, you know, I think I'm a social activist, first, and a playwright second, with each of these plays, the starting point is, how do I help contribute to a world that I would like to see, that I would like to build.

Jaswinder 28:06

And how do you feel like theatre contributes to that mission? I know that's quite a big question, but it's interesting to hear you say that. So how do you think the plays are kind of aiding you in that kind of work or in that kind of mission?

Iman 28:18

Well, I think, I think theatre is essential. I really believe in theatre as as a communal experience. And I think so much of our world has become very isolated and lonely. We don't even have to go to the cinema to watch films anymore. You can sit at home and order them online, and the spaces that we used to come together as a society are all closing down. You know, whether it's churches or community centers or libraries, all these places are shutting down. And even live music isn't the same as what it used to be, but theater is somewhere we have to sit. We have to clamber over people's knees to get to our seat and deal with them taking out their phones and being Annoying. And we have to sit with other people, shoulder to shoulder, and hear the same story and empathize with the same people, and that is a really rare, precious experience right now. And theatre is about love and connection and walking a mile in someone else's shoes, and you can't I mean, you can walk out in protest if you really want to, but the number of books that I've started and abandoned or films that I haven't finished, it's very easy to switch something off, but it's very hard to switch off theatre. So you know, you're more likely than not to sit through the bits you feel are uncomfortable and get to the end and then work out what you think. And I think that is a really useful tool. A playwright has to be able to connect with an audience and and worm their way into their hearts and their minds. And we're living in a time where truth doesn't matter, where fact doesn't matter. You work out what you believe, you think about, what you feel, and then you find the facts to to to suit that narrative. And so if you can really. To change how people feel. I really think you can change the world. So I think theater is a really important part of that.

Shiroma 30:06

So you feel, in a way that theatre is is actually possibly making a revival in that sense, it's, it's the way forward, because it doesn't, as you say, allow people just to switch off and and walk out. It actually forces you to stay in in that space.

Iman 30:22

Absolutely. And it's the only, it's the only form I can think of that does that. I mean, perhaps someone else can think of another that does that. But how we understand who we are is through stories. And if it's too easy to switch off a story that feels uncomfortable or one that you don't want to hear, then we're lost.

Rukhsana 30:43

I was just thinking about the perspective thing that you're talking - the perspective on identity that you know you have on your own identity. Has it changed because of certain plays that you've written?

Iman 30:54

That I've written? You know, I think the one that I'm writing at the minute about this charity and anti semitism has definitely made me question why so many Jewish people feel so alienated by the left. And I think I have to you know, I have certainly observed in a way that I perhaps hadn't before that there is anti semitism on the left or or at the very least that the left has abdicated a feeling of responsibility for calling out anti semitism and I and that's an uncomfortable thing that I've had to really sit with. I guess my only response is to say, we have to be we have to call it out more. We have to bring anti semitism into an anti racist framework, and again, work through solidarity and welcome those Jewish people in who don't always feel safe at those marches, who don't who who turn up those marches, even though it is, you know, it's on a Shabbat. It's a day of rest for Jews, but they turn up and they support Palestine, but they feel ambivalent, and they feel afraid of what they might see or what someone might say. And I don't think that fear is I think partly it's unfounded. So sometimes people do say problematic things. So I think that's one of the difficult things I've had to going back to your question. I've gone on a massive rant. I'm very much living in this play at the minute.

Shiroma 32:24

So would you say your perspective, therefore, has widened on this through exploring this subject?

Iman 32:31

I think it has. I think I think I have empathy for people I perhaps didn't before.

Shiroma 32:41

What other aspects of your politics would you say feed into your works?

Iman 32:47

I guess I am an old fashioned lefty. And so yeah, equality, justice, women, and anti fascist and anti racist, and all of those things are a part of it and creating a better, more equal world.

Jaswinder 33:02

And I wanted to ask also, so obviously, the project is about kind of thinking about where British South Asian writing is at the moment, and who the kind of writers are who are working in that area, and what kind of ideas are developing. From your perspective, how has British Asian theatre changed over the last couple of decades, or what have you noticed as a writer in terms of representation, in terms of the kind of work that's been commissioned, in terms of the stories that are being told, the voices that are coming through? What are your kind of reflections on that?

Iman 33:33

Sadly, I don't think much has changed. I think there's a very there's very little representation on stage about South Asians, like, there's a real invisibility, and when and when there, when there is something, either it's in a very tiny studio space, never gets a life, doesn't get good reviews, never gets a second life, sorry, doesn't get great reviews, and it sort of disappears. And I think that's really sad, and I think that's a missed, yeah, there's something missing there, which I feel very sad about. And I think that's what makes Kali so special, is that, yeah, that stories about ordinary people are are treated with the same importance, yeah, as sort of, I don't know, prime ministers or whatever.

Jaswinder 34:19

And it's great that Ministry is coming back to the Kiln and getting that kind of second run as well that you talked about, that, that kind of continuation of those works, yeah, showing them to a broader audience as well.

Iman 34:30

Yeah. Although Ministry doesn't have any South Asians in it. So, you know, and, and there was a conscious thing my part as a writer, I wanted to write a play that was not about that part of my identity, because I don't want to be pigeonholed as a writer, and I think that unfortunately is the fate for a lot of South Asian playwrights. And I want people to know that I can write about anything.

Shiroma 35:00

And in 2018 you won the Papatango Prize. What difference did that make to your journey?

Iman 35:08

I mean, it, mean, it made a huge difference. I think it I had a sort of influx of commissions and meetings and all of that. That was October. That show opened in October, November 2018 and by April, May 2019 I'd quit my day job. And I said, okay, I'll quit it and give myself a year to write full time, and if I run out of money by the end of the year, and I'll go back to a proper job. And I never went back. So I've been a fully freelance writer since then, which is, I mean, incredible. Actually, make a living. Make a living from it. It's very difficult.

Rukhsana 35:48

Fantastic, fantastic, yeah, actually, how many years have you been writing? Have you written a lot of plays?

Iman 35:56

Well, I think the one before Funeral Director was Speed, which was a Kali production in 2013, I think that was produced. And then since Funeral Director, Ministry, and then I've got another three, four in the works, various, five at various stages of development, I'm sure not all of which will see the bright lights, but hopefully some will.

Shiroma 36:24

And so if other South Asian writers could get to your stage that you did in 2018 that would surely enormously open up avenues.

Iman 36:34

I think all writers are different. So I think so some people who've won the Papatango haven't had a second play on, some have. It's really hard to predict. I think I was fortunate in that I feel like I won it at the right time in my career. It wasn't my first play, it was my second play, which was useful. I think often writers will have this one breakout first play, and you'll never hear from them again. And I think that's really, you know, sad and unlucky. And I something a writer that I'm friends with, a much more senior writer who I'm friends with, told me early on was that you only have a limited number of plays that come from you, from your heart, and for everything else you need to find, whether it's a book adaptation or, you know, a myth, or something like that, you need to look outwards for that. So in order to sustain a career as a writer, you can't rely on just your one story.

Jaswinder 37:37

I think that's really good advice. Yeah, really good advice, and something that people don't often say, but I think so true in terms of you have to look elsewhere, because I think there's this myth that the writer will constantly just be able to generate these brand new, ambitious ideas, and sometimes it is about finding things and making them work with your voice. Speaking of which, I think Rukhsana has a closing question for you.

Rukhsana 38:05

Is there a favorite play of yours with the favorite line? Is there a favorite line?

Iman 38:09

A favorite line? You know what. I haven't thought of one yet, but there is a favorite moment, which is the pre interval moment of Ministry of Lesbian Affairs, where they sing a Tracy Chapman song called Talking About a Revolution. And I think that is one of my favorite moments, because there's such a like, yes, we're going to pride, moment of like, community and togetherness and and I love watching people when when the run was on. I would love watching people coming down from the theatre into the bar for that interval, and there would be like, this bubble of joy and excitement. And the fear with putting an interval in a play is always like, hopefully people won't leave in the in the interval and not come back. Hopefully they're having a good enough time, they'll come back. And, you know, almost always that they they would, yeah, I didn't see any empty seats in the second half. So that moment of that Tracy Chapman song was such a galvanizing, revolutionary moment that and it's the first time the choir really sing together and singing well.

Rukhsana 39:13

And it's a lovely moment. I think, yes, lovely moment.

Iman 39:16

I hope you will come to see it.

Rukhsana 39:18

When is it on?

Iman 39:20

The previews start on the 13th of June, and then it closes on the 13th of July. It's a short run. It's just a month.

Rukhsana 39:28

And whose directing it?

Iman 39:28

Hannah Hauer-King.

Shiroma 39:30

Can I just asked a supplementary question. We were talking about heart. And, you know, writing from the heart, there are so many hearts that haven't managed to cross those barriers. What's going wrong? Do you think, what, where? What are the barriers?

Iman 39:46

Well, I think structural racism. There's such a fear that things won't sell and margins are very tight, and so much of the conversation is, what, what person on the telly can we get to star in our show that will sell tickets? And that's a really cynical, sad state of affairs. And when the people on telly aren't South Asian, the people in the plays aren't going to be South Asian. They're not going to, and I think also that there is a cultural racism, where we do not see plays about South Asians as universal. And there is like, okay, we'll do this for the for the brown audience. And I, actually, I think, you know, plays like For Black Boys or Retrograde, that's on, you know, Ryan Callais Cameron has done an amazing job at like, showing audiences that plays about black people can be universal and can be enjoyed by everyone. Retrograde is excellent, by the way. I really recommend it. And I think, you know, unfortunately, South Asians, I don't think, have had that moment yet. I hope they do.

Shiroma 40:57

Which could also be an argument not to get pigeonholed as a South Asian writer.

Iman 41:02

It's something I go back and forth over of like, what is my responsibility as a South Asian writer? And should I have put the made the lead character in Ministry South Asian, would that have had the same pick up? And I think after Funeral Director, where I really felt pigeonholed, I wanted to write a play that wasn't as exposing for me personally, and so that that was what the choice was, one of self preservation. It wasn't, that actually wasn't a political choice that was very personal, I don't know. Keep writing. Keep writing ambitiously. It's the advice I'd get ambitiously. Don't write those very samey one person plays like think really big. I would be my suggestion to writers.

Shiroma 41:51

Iman Qureshi, thank you so much for joining us. It's been so insightful, a real pleasure.

Iman 41:55

Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Shiroma 42:02

The next act is executive produced by Jaswinder Blackwell-Pal, Shiroma Silva and Rukhsana Ahmad. It is edited and assistant produced by Kavita Kukar and Malia Haider. Our research assistant is Carrie Luce and the technical producer is Matthew Kowalczuk. Our designer is Arjun Mahadevan. It is funded and supported by the Center for Public Engagement and the Department of drama at Queen Mary University of London. You can follow up online at www.thenextact.co.uk.

Iman
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Iman
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